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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 6:32 am
Ok , so after all this activity , I have 22 secs , sorry but I wasn't able to work more , school is killing me T~T

http://sta.sh/03om0iq86nk

Deal with it plz





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 12:32 pm
Just wanted to throw my opinion out here based on the sound usage, I dont think using fully just dbz sounds throughout a animation makes it bad or any other sounds as long as the sounds flow nicely with the animation. But i can understand how some people can get tired of hearing sounds abusively used in majority of animations and want to hear a diversity use of sounds. Anyone can use same sounds in all there animations, it wouldn't matter to me as long as it has a nice flow with the animation.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 1:14 pm
@TheDarknessKage wrote:Just wanted to throw my opinion out here based on the sound usage, I dont think using fully just dbz sounds throughout a animation makes it bad or any other sounds as long as the sounds flow nicely with the animation. But i can understand how some people can get tired of hearing sounds abusively used in majority of animations and want to hear a diversity use of sounds. Anyone can use same sounds in all there animations, it wouldn't matter to me as long as it has a nice flow with the animation.

See this is how people should think. I don't get why you would bash someone on using something that's overused unless they are solely using it because it's a popular sound. If it's a popular sound and it fits then those would be great incentives toward using that sound. Too many people think they are cool or think they're animation is better because they aren't using what everyone else uses, but honestly it shouldn't even matter as long as that sound is used correctly. Focusing on how popular a sound is distracts from the issue of whether or not the animator is even using the sound correctly to begin with which is a problem because instead of focusing on actually helping the animator we focus on personal problems we have with an animation and personal problems should never be a factor in constructive criticism.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 3:19 pm
I always thought sound should be the absolute last thing you judge in an animation anyway (unless the sound is distractingly bad)


@BuchonlxD wrote:Ok , so after all this activity , I have 22 secs , sorry but I wasn't able to work more , school is killing me T~T

http://sta.sh/03om0iq86nk

Deal with it plz

Welp, I told you to keep up the good work and you didn't fail. Now I really want to see this finished.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 4:04 pm
@Blue22 wrote:Welp, I told you to keep up the good work and you didn't fail. Now I really want to see this finished.

Thank you man , nice seeing that thespritas still haves people who thinks normally





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 4:17 pm
Alright now. Don't get petty. Just because you felt disrespected doesn't mean you gotta act disrespectful





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 4:45 pm
@Blue22 wrote:Alright now. Don't get petty. Just because you felt disrespected doesn't mean you gotta act disrespectful

Fiiine Fiiine , I'm not disrespectful , well maybe just a Little , but No more.

Anyway , 22 secs and on going guys , I'll keep you aviced of last updates





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 10:16 pm
Oh here we go again. Everyone cherry picking "SO ITS SMBZ BECAUSE IT USED DBZ SOUNDS!?!? SO NO ONE CAN USE DBZ SOUNDS WITHOUT COPYING ALVIN!?!?"
Fun fact, Alvin uses more than just DBZ sounds. There's a number of sounds DBZ and otherwise that he uses. Oh, and visual effects, methods of tweening, characters, and clips of action are also just kinda sorta a huge fucking factor. But, as always, people are oblivious to it and the creator of the animation feigns ignorance. It's always a fascinating dynamic. First the animation, then the call out, then the cherry picking, then the argument devolving around this one cherry picked element, and so on.
I'm really starting to believe most of you have seen next to nothing besides SMBZ and SMBZ clones, and that's why you don't understand the fuss. You have no point of reference.

SO THIS RESEMBLES SMBZ JUST BECAUSE IT USES DBZ SOUNDS!?!? IS THAT IT!?!?





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 11:30 pm
@Mr Lange wrote:stuff

That is a full, finished animation. This is still being worked on. There is no doubt that is a SMBZ clone, but what Buch has, isn't even remotely like that in the slightest. But if there are truly other elements that are such a giant rip-off from SMBZ that I am missing then please do share them.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/25/2014, 11:37 pm
*kneel pose*
*VWASHOOOOOOM*
*identical blue trail effect with identical animation*





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 1:23 am
Holy shit, that is one little aspect of the animation, but once again this is still being made. The kneel pose is needed because people don't just start fucking running fast without any kind of prep. Literally almost every kind of athletics involving running starts with a kneel because you have to push to start with a higher momentum. And the trail effect is just used to emphasize the speed of the characters AND it looks nice when animated well. It's pretty much a staple in all sprite sonic animations. That's not to say that you have to use it, but it's pretty much expected. Lastly, the sound effect works really well with that effect. There are a lot of awkward whoosh sounds that don't fit well but this is one of them that not only relays to the watcher how fast Sonic is moving, but with an appropriate level as well. It fits perfectly, IMO.


None of these aspects make it seem like an SMBZ ripoff, they are standard animation practices prevalent throughout Sonic sprite animation. Maybe this is what you mean, by we have no other references from which we can look at, but if these small things warrant someone's animation being a SMBZ clone then I honestly don't know what to say except live, and let live. If you think this is an SMBZ ripoff then fine, but if you base what a SMBZ ripoff is from such trivial aspects of animation then you're gonna see a fucking metric-ton of SMBZ ripoffs.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 4:11 am
A lot of "trivials" eventually add up to a ripoff. That whole take off sequence is identical to SMBZ, your break down of it means nothing, as hilarious as it was to read that. Same sprites, same sound, same damn effect, there's thousands of ways to go about it (or how about something he could come up with) but that's the one he chose. He chose to do exactly what Alvin did. Yes, you have no point of reference. This is all you've seen which is why you think it's "standard animation practice".
Same characters, same sprites, same visuals, same sounds, same little sequences, don't give me that shit. I'll wait to see the full thing, but BuchonlxD has made pretty much nothing but semi-SMBZ clones, and given everyone like him I've known in the past, I doubt that's going to change any time soon.

There's the review you asked for BuchonlxD. I might be more inclined to accept it if you accepted it too, if you took it to heart and considered it a valid criticism like any other. But no, you get extremely defensive and whip out a couple insults. All it does is make you look more guilty and amplify the stigma you started with.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 6:30 am
@Mr Lange wrote:A lot of "trivials" eventually add up to a ripoff. That whole take off sequence is identical to SMBZ, your break down of it means nothing, as hilarious as it was to read that. Same sprites, same sound, same damn effect, there's thousands of ways to go about it (or how about something he could come up with) but that's the one he chose. He chose to do exactly what Alvin did. Yes, you have no point of reference. This is all you've seen which is why you think it's "standard animation practice".
Same characters, same sprites, same visuals, same sounds, same little sequences, don't give me that shit. I'll wait to see the full thing, but BuchonlxD has made pretty much nothing but semi-SMBZ clones, and given everyone like him I've known in the past, I doubt that's going to change any time soon.

There's the review you asked for BuchonlxD. I might be more inclined to accept it if you accepted it too, if you took it to heart and considered it a valid criticism like any other. But no, you get extremely defensive and whip out a couple insults. All it does is make you look more guilty and amplify the stigma you started with.

1 - Facepalm

2 - Ok , whathever you say but I don't see where I'm insulting someone , right now.

3 - I'll take your criticism but I don't see it's like SMBZ , so I'll not do anything with it yet





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 7:02 am
Sigh... I never thought I`d have to return to this piece of dump.

Ill explain the situation.
1. Buchonl is a beginner, and he has yet started to get acquainted with professional animation. Animation is not lightly to take, its creating artificial life.
Upon this fact he should be supported, criticized but also motivated. Someone who`s constantly pestered will quit eventually. Rarely does anyone accept pecking alone.

2. You will have to start off somewhere and copying someone is the first step to success. I went through that too, and it was a very lovely experience for me personally.
Upon THIS fact, people should be tolerant and patient.

3. Lange is making a mistake because he expects something impossible in terms of logic and reality. It takes time and patience to form out a golden prodigy out of someone.
4. Underestimating his potential is another mistake Lange makes. He thinks that Buchonl will remain a SMBZ cloner forever as he states. I believe that he has met many people and he got dissappointed real quick, or thought things will never turn out better.

Buchonl, you and I discussed privately what you need to work on. I appreciate that you heard me out.

As for you, Lange, for an intelligent guy, i am sorely disappointed in you. I never thought you`d stoop as low as to mock people who aren`t on your intellectual level. Back when I met you and Eric, i could see idols in my eyes, classy people with the right attitude and a very keen sight. Keeping track of the details and facts and arguments... All that`s fine.

But you are making a mistake. Everyone has to start off somewhere. You weren`t 100% original with your first pieces of artworks and animations either, no one ever has. The chances someone original, completely original will turn out are very rare, i`d say on a Da Vinci level. You have to understand that this guy is still a novice just like how I was one day, and the only thing that will take him further and further on is support. Its one thing to criticize but I can barely see that you have been supportive.

You are intelligent, but the fact that you`re pressing everyone below you is your harshest mistake you`ll ever make. I hope you`ll realize that one day and use your talents to actually help out anyone else but yourself. The Sun isn`t rotating around you, you know.

Lange, its true that criticism must be taken maturely, but i can`t see how you are actually criticizing this boy. You didn`t mention one thing how should be done better. I understand that you`ve struggled on your own to learn and become better, but you shouldn`t take that so butthurt as to make others go through the same path you did. I`m sure you understand what I mean, you`re a very smart guy and I respect you for that. But your attitude drops every quality you are having in water.

So I leave you with my final words. Start valuing other people, everyone is more or less equal. Because arrogance will be your downfall.

As for everyone else, I`ve been asked many times why I left Spritas. Its because this place has dropped as low as a coffee bar, everyone talks too much and does little to nothing. What are you people trying to achieve? Seriously, when will all of you grow up?


Sigh. Where`s Hitler when you need him....

If i have to return again, I strongly recommend that you take a serious dose of emotional anesthetic. That means all of you.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 10:00 am
You can have a shitty attitude at times, Lange. I don't recall where but this isn't the first time I've gotten an elitist vibe from you. Talented as hell but you're really quick to put somebody down.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 11:09 am
@exorz15 wrote:Because arrogance will be your downfall.

@exorz15 wrote:Sigh... I never thought I`d have to return to this piece of dump.

@exorz15 wrote:but the fact that you`re pressing everyone below you is your harshest mistake you`ll ever make.

@exorz15 wrote:I never thought you`d stoop as low as to mock people who aren`t on your intellectual level

@exorz15 wrote:Seriously, when will all of you grow up?

@exorz15 wrote:If i have to return again

TOP LEL.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 11:09 am
don't make the purple robots at the beginning just stop at the middle.
as for the smbz stuff...
i have no idea why this resembles SMBZ in any way.
mecha sonic is in this...so what? mecha sonic isn't property of SMBZ.
dbz sounds are used...again not SMBZ property.

this isn't SMBZ ripoff, it's a sprite movie.
sprite movies are just doing animations using existing resources.
every fucking sprite movie you make is a "ripoff" of something honestly.
and it's sprites, there ain't much going on about unique animation style and unique way of creating your animation.
i could say this piece of work is a ripoff of all sonic sprite animations, i mean seriously.
the kneel pose at the start isn't an alvin earthworm thing...it's needed to do in real life too before running, the blue dash is something that the sega team created not alvin.
alvin is like every other sprite animator, stop acting like he is the god of all sprite animations, he isn't even the best.

just keep doing your animation the way you want it to, honestly every cinematic thing you'll do will be inspired from something, you can't do any cinema work without inspiration, sure you shouldn't copy exact things but i don't see an exact copy from alvin here...if it was an excellent copy, the animation will be a lot better than it is (no offense).

i agree with exorz too, that's way i became extreamly less active here, i don't think anyone really care i've become inactive but jesus, this is becoming a bad commuinty that absoultley doesn't help uprising animators.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 11:43 am
Wow Exorz, your first post in months and it's you being incredibly overdramatic.

Again.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 1:06 pm
Well, I reviewed it once and now I'll update my review since you updated the animation.

It's not bad that's for sure, but I really dislike the part where Sonic was doing that backflip(?) into the somersault, you should try to make him turn more or make it happen faster, the tween shows much too obviously.

There was some punch sound in there that was a little overused, I heard it about 4 times in a row when the Emerl robots went flying.

You should also probably just have those flying robots disappear to the right and not come back into the middle, that way it makes it look like they are going out to attack instead of fly there in place spectating.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 2:00 pm
So. Much. Drama.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 2:09 pm
Alrighty here we go.

@BuchonlxD wrote:Ok , whathever you say but I don't see where I'm insulting someone , right now.
@BuchonlxD wrote:Lol Nice work Lange , keep up bringing down the site by yourself this is gonna be interesting
By myself lol. I think I'm getting plenty of help with that so thanks.

@exorz15 wrote:1. Buchonl is a beginner, and he has yet started to get acquainted with professional animation. Animation is not lightly to take, its creating artificial life.
Upon this fact he should be supported, criticized but also motivated. Someone who`s constantly pestered will quit eventually. Rarely does anyone accept pecking alone.

2. You will have to start off somewhere and copying someone is the first step to success. I went through that too, and it was a very lovely experience for me personally.
Upon THIS fact, people should be tolerant and patient.
Copying someone is ONE way, not the only way.
"Pestering" would never make me quit. It would only further my introspection to try and correct what others are seeing that I am not. That's part of how I developed the skills that I have.
Also, thank you for admitting that you can see he is copying, at least I don't have to argue that part with you. Maybe you could explain it to these guys better than I can, because they're still oblivious to it.

@exorz15 wrote:3. Lange is making a mistake because he expects something impossible in terms of logic and reality.
You're kidding right. I started with my own styles of animation on day 1, tell me what is impossible here. The issue isn't that BuchonlxD is bad, he's a decent animator right now. The issue is that he refuses to drop the training wheels, and he clearly doesn't need them.

@exorz15 wrote:It takes time and patience to form out a golden prodigy out of someone.
So I say "You're ripping off too much, be more original." This somehow equates to expecting someone to turn someone into a "golden prodigy". Alrighty then. You just keep on believing that in topsy turvy land.

@exorz15 wrote:4. Underestimating his potential is another mistake Lange makes. He thinks that Buchonl will remain a SMBZ cloner forever as he states. I believe that he has met many people and he got dissappointed real quick, or thought things will never turn out better.
Make a liar out of me then, BuchonxlD. Grow out of your stagnating roots and prove me wrong. That would make me happier than anything.

@exorz15 wrote:As for you, Lange, for an intelligent guy, i am sorely disappointed in you. I never thought you`d stoop as low as to mock people who aren`t on your intellectual level. Back when I met you and Eric, i could see idols in my eyes, classy people with the right attitude and a very keen sight. Keeping track of the details and facts and arguments... All that`s fine.

But you are making a mistake. Everyone has to start off somewhere. You weren`t 100% original with your first pieces of artworks and animations either, no one ever has. The chances someone original, completely original will turn out are very rare, i`d say on a Da Vinci level. You have to understand that this guy is still a novice just like how I was one day, and the only thing that will take him further and further on is support. Its one thing to criticize but I can barely see that you have been supportive.
I was 100% original, at least in the sense I was making no efforts to copy anyone. I built up all the resources myself, invented my own methods, and developed my own style, ever since my first animation Sonic vs Shadow. You could argue it's still not 100% original (although please show me an animation before it that was anything like it). You could say, that mine was about 85% original whereas BuchonxlD's animation is about 25-35% original on average. By the way, the issue is also that BuchonxlD has been making animation after animation like this. He's had what, over a dozen things like this? It's been a long time now. If this were among his first three, I might be a little more understanding, but now it's just getting stupid.

@exorz15 wrote:You are intelligent, but the fact that you`re pressing everyone below you is your harshest mistake you`ll ever make. I hope you`ll realize that one day and use your talents to actually help out anyone else but yourself. The Sun isn`t rotating around you, you know.
You're the only one making claims about who is superior and inferior, which is embarrassing to say the least. I have no such mentality of stomping on "the little guy." I'm mocking those I see as equals, that's why I'm so harsh. Think about it.

@exorz15 wrote:Lange, its true that criticism must be taken maturely, but i can`t see how you are actually criticizing this boy. You didn`t mention one thing how should be done better. I understand that you`ve struggled on your own to learn and become better, but you shouldn`t take that so butthurt as to make others go through the same path you did. I`m sure you understand what I mean, you`re a very smart guy and I respect you for that. But your attitude drops every quality you are having in water.

So I leave you with my final words. Start valuing other people, everyone is more or less equal. Because arrogance will be your downfall.
I pointed out several things, guess you didn't read the posts.
Couple things you should know.
I'm not trying to make everyone go through the exact same path I did, that would undoubtedly be unfair. You're describing these two paths as if they are only paths and the only options, what you're doing is looking at it black and white. I shouldn't have to tell anyone not to do that. Ever heard of a middle ground?
Also, if others did take the path I took, they'd likely become very skilled and have a lot of motivation. Why would I try to steer people that way? Maybe because I care? Think about that too.

@exorz15 wrote:As for everyone else, I`ve been asked many times why I left Spritas. Its because this place has dropped as low as a coffee bar, everyone talks too much and does little to nothing. What are you people trying to achieve? Seriously, when will all of you grow up?


Sigh. Where`s Hitler when you need him....

If i have to return again, I strongly recommend that you take a serious dose of emotional anesthetic. That means all of you.
Thanks for insulting the entire site to defend BuchonxlD's bad habits, goodbye then.

@Blue22 wrote:You can have a shitty attitude at times, Lange. I don't recall where but this isn't the first time I've gotten an elitist vibe from you. Talented as hell but you're really quick to put somebody down.
Always taking the defensive stance. Never looking at the substance in the speech. That doesn't help anything. When I draw out a criticism about something ripping off aspects of SMBZ, the immediate reactions are always defensive. All you get out of that is "putting somebody down". Makes me disappointed.

@Tal wrote:this isn't SMBZ ripoff, it's a sprite movie.
sprite movies are just doing animations using existing resources.
The existing resources part are like the lines of stone and wood and dirt at the bottom of a skyscraper under construction. It has next to nothing to do with what the skyscraper built from that is actually like.

@Tal wrote:every fucking sprite movie you make is a "ripoff" of something honestly.
and it's sprites, there ain't much going on about unique animation style and unique way of creating your animation.
This is it. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said nobody here has any point of reference. You've either seen nothing but SMBZ and SMBZ clones, or all sprite animations in your eyes are a homogenous blur from which you can't tell any difference small or large.

@Tal wrote:i could say this piece of work is a ripoff of all sonic sprite animations, i mean seriously.
No, you can't. The only Sonic sprite animations this resembles are SMBZ, other SMBZ clones, and it's a bit similar to some like SXR's and Exorz's animations. Using Sonic sprites alone doesn't make it a ripoff. Consider the sprites used, how they're used, and all the little sequences that make up the animation. I feel like an idiot trying to explain this shit which should be obvious.

@Tal wrote:i have no idea why this resembles SMBZ in any way.
mecha sonic is in this...so what? mecha sonic isn't property of SMBZ.
dbz sounds are used...again not SMBZ property.
the kneel pose at the start isn't an alvin earthworm thing...it's needed to do in real life too before running, the blue dash is something that the sega team created not alvin.
You should read my post above about cherry picking. Breaking down every little feature and justifying them individually doesn't change what it is as a whole.

@Tal wrote:alvin is like every other sprite animator, stop acting like he is the god of all sprite animations, he isn't even the best.
I never made any claims about Alvin being the best. How is Alvin being the best or not the best relevant to anything? Alvin has created several very well known sprite animations that have a very distinct style. So distinct, that's immediately recognizable when he or anyone else tries to make anything like it.

@Tal wrote:just keep doing your animation the way you want it to, honestly every cinematic thing you'll do will be inspired from something, you can't do any cinema work without inspiration, sure you shouldn't copy exact things but i don't see an exact copy from alvin here...if it was an excellent copy, the animation will be a lot better than it is (no offense).
Inspiration is not the same thing as copying features. It may be difficult to see the line at times, but it's there.
Truth be told, he has some animation here that's better than a lot of SMBZ. That's why it pains me so much to see he's still copying so many major details. He doesn't need to.

@Tal wrote:i agree with exorz too, that's way i became extreamly less active here, i don't think anyone really care i've become inactive but jesus, this is becoming a bad commuinty that absoultley doesn't help uprising animators.
Well BuchonxlD, you can take my advice, or you could be like these two bums sipping drinks in a bar complaining about how Spritas is so unfair and let them down.





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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 2:42 pm
@Mr Lange wrote:stuff
Lange, I love you.

I completely agree. Buchnol, I think that you are pretty decent when it comes to animating. At least, a lot better then when I started. I can see you becoming very good but there are habits that you need to try and drop to achieve that. For a while now, you've been making Sonic animations which is fine. But they aren't different. They are generally the same thing with very little originality. Its fine to lift a thing or two from an animation ( I don't mean to directly copy) or draw inspiration from a type of style, but when you rely too much on it, it shows. I started animating because of SMBZ and my early animations show. They are copies of it. I didn't notice because thats all I had seen at the time. SMBZ and clones of it. However, now that I've tried and seen different styles of animation, its as clear as day.

My advice would be to try using sprites that aren't commonly used. With Sonic, there are tons and tons of animations in which you could lift things from. Using uncommon sprites forces you to really think and try to be creative. Not saying that you should just give up Sonic entirely. You should animate what you like to but taking a break from it could do some good.

Also, Lange's criticism may be harsh but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even bother if he thought you couldn't improve.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 2:43 pm
I was mentioned :3

not sure if that's a good thing, but i'm taking it as a victory anyway.

Lange's pretty much said what's needed to be said.

Since when has "this looks like SMBZ" caused everyone to flip shit? This has been said multiple times here and this is the first time I've ever seen everyone cause such a shitstorm defending the guy who did it.







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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 3:17 pm
@SXR123 wrote:Since when has "this looks like SMBZ" caused everyone to flip shit? This has been said multiple times here and this is the first time I've ever seen everyone cause such a shitstorm defending the guy who did it.

What constitutes a SMBZ ripoff is controversial. I don't think this animation is a SMBZ ripoff, but others think otherwise. Since this topic is so controversial we should probably either drop it or move to another thread because at this rate, this isn't really helping Buch progress with his animation.
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Re: Sonic and Mecha Sonic Teamwork

on 2/26/2014, 3:21 pm
Lange is tanking all this hate as usual. But Buch, you don't have to take criticism if it seems unreasonable to your standards, keep continuing with the sprite video if you're still up for it. Not saying Lange's criticism is bad or not.





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